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Malhavoc
Press
Cry Havoc Chat Transcript Featuring Skip Williams
August
7, 2003 -- 5 p.m. PST
 Skip
Williams entertained fans in our very
own chat room last week, answering your questions about
the new PDF edition of Cry
Havoc and more. Thanks to everyone who attended
this chat, as well as room moderator Matt Locke for making
it happen, as always, and for sharing this transcript* with
us.
We
had a little technical trouble with this one (Skip never
managed to actually get connected to the chat room), but
it all turned out great in the end, as you can see.
<Galhavoc>
Well, until Skip gets here, I can make a few intro remarks
about Cry Havoc. It's a little different than our
previous event books. While it has the info on preparing
for the event and integrating the event into your campaigns,
plus Prestige Classes and adventure hooks, literally half
the book is taken up by Skip's d20 mass combat system. While
not a mass combat skilled player myself, I really like it
because it works just like standard individual d20 combat,
just scaled up for units of 10 characters or more. So I
know how to make an attack or multiple attacks, my units
can use feats just like my characters can, and so on. Skip
can explain this more gracefully than I.
<Duloth>
Does the mass combat system use principles like, with this
many characters, it's impossible for -all- of them to miss,
or -all- of them to hit, so it does a proportion?
<Monte>
We should wait for Skip to get here to get into specific
questions.
<Duloth>
That's fine. Was just wondering as, the moment I saw that,
it looked as if it would resemble my homebrew system.
<Galhavoc>
What I am eager to do is play a couple units of wizards
and try some scaled-up spellcasting. His new spells and
unit spell rules are very cool.
<Carthain>
If people want to start messaging me questions ("/msg
carthain question"), I can start making a queue and
we can bombard Skip when he gets here ^_^
<Duloth>
Much more fun to wait, and then flood the person off the
server with 5,000 questions at once, isn't it?
<Carthain>
flood me? ^_^;;
<TGM_Stan>
You've got a unique definition of "fun", Duloth
... ;^)
<Monte>
Skip is having some problems connecting, apparently. So,
how's everyone doing tonight/this morning?
<JediSoth>
I'm doing well, thank you. Just waiting for dinner to finish
cooking.
<Elsin>
Good here. Almost over a weeklong cold ...
<TGM_Stan>
I'm procrastinating, thank you very much.
<Tezrak>
Tired. Early morn at the bookstore. Otherwise just fine,
thanks. :)
<juanjose_>
Pretty good, eager to read the Sage live.
<Galhavoc> Stan, Skip sez hi. He's on the phone [with
us] now.
<TGM_Stan>
I say hi right back to Skip (and on to Penny as well).
<Michielfl>
This is my first meet with game designers :)
<Galhavoc>
Skip is attempting login #3.
<JediSoth>
Go Skip! Go Skip!
<TGM_Stan>
*lol* ... this is like listening to the live feed from NASA
<Monte>
It is?
<Galhavoc>
I guess that makes me Mission Control.
<Coyotelies>
Ground Control to Major Skip
<Galhavoc>
Ohno! He crashed!
<TGM_Stan>
"Skip is attempting login #3 .... *squawk* ... t-minus
three seconds ... *squawk* ... we have dial tone!"
* Visceris
bounces in anticipation.
<Galhavoc>
Okay, I've got Skip on speakerphone since his system crashed.
I will type for him [as he answers your questions.]
<Galhavoc>
"I have never had a computer crash that badly,"
he said.
<Carthain>
Sue: So you'll be Skip's voice?
<Galhavoc>
Yes, I'm now Skip. (hee hee) Skip said he is glad to be
here.
<Carthain>
Welcome to a Malhavoc Press Chat! Today we are chatting
with Monte Cook & Skip Williams. The topic of today
is Cry Havoc. To ask a question, just message me
with it. To send me a question, just type "/MSG carthain
this is my question" (without the quotes).
<Galhavoc>
Skip has a short intro statement.
<Skip
via Galhavoc> The basics of mass combat in Cry Havoc:
It all works off averages. You make one attack roll for
all 10 creatures attacking, and you treat it like a regular
d20 attack roll. Add the attack bonus for the unit, and
an additional modifier based on the average damage the unit
can do. That will give you a number of hits. With each hit,
a unit inflicts about 5 points of damage. (5 points of damage
= 1 damage factor, so a unit of 10 20-hp creatures has a
total of 200 hp or 40 damage factors.) We use damage factors
to make things go smoother and faster than taking off each
individual hit point. A unit will seldom all hit together,
but it will do a lot of damage, or only a little damage,
or a moderate amount of damage depending on how good the
attack roll is. The basic exchange is assumed to be between
units of 10 or more creatures. Once you know this general
background, you know how to play. :)
<Galhavoc>
(Skip grins) Any questions, or shall I go on?
<Carthain>
I've got a couple questions lined up ^_^
<Skip
via Galhavoc> Fire away!
<Carthain>
From Duloth: "Does it use principles like.. with this
many characters, it's impossible for -all- of them to miss,
or -all- of them to hit, so it does a proportion?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> The answer is, it all works off averages.
The basic assumption of the central combat table is that
a unit of 10 creatures, if it rolls exactly what it needs
to hit, will deal 5 damage factors. By every 2 points by
which it exceeds what it needed to hit, it deals an additional
damage factor. By every 2 points less than the number needed,
the unit deals one less damage factor. So, if you need a
10 to hit, and roll a 10, you deal 5 damage factors (i.e.
25 hp), but if you roll a 12, you deal six factors, and
if you roll an 8 you deal only four factors.
<Galhavoc>
Skip says I should remind you that the level of abstraction
is higher in unit combat than in individual combat. So a
round takes a minute in unit combat. There's all kinds of
other things going on during a 6-second period -- not all
the members of the unit may be ready to attack every 6 seconds,
so using a minute is an attempt to keep everything workable
but familiar.
<Carthain>
From JediSoth: "Am I correct in assuming that units
are considered to be all the same level?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> No, you're not. ;) Several caveats go with
this answer. First, things work better when units are made
up of identical creatures. However, since everything works
off an average, you can do a mixed unit, and just average
all their combat modifiers and get the unit's stats that
way. All the ones we've
posted so far on Monte's site are units of identical
creatures. The game itself, when it talks about mixed units
(say, five bugbears and five ogres) -- this unit is tougher
than a unit of 10 bugbears but not as tough as a unit of
10 ogres.
<Galhavoc>
(I hope this is coherent...)
<Carthain>
From Elsin: "How much work will it be to use Cry
Havoc with Monte Cook's
Arcana Unearthed?"
<Skip via Galhavoc> No more work than to use it with
the Player's Handbook or any d20 campaign. There
are two places where you might have some extra effort, potentially.
First, Cry Havoc has no battlefield magic notes for
any of the Arcana Unearthed spells. However,
once you get a feel for how it works with the PH spell notes
in Chapter Four, it is not hard. The second area would be
special racial abilities in Arcana Unearthed. Not
all of these are dealt with -- Chapter Four of Cry Havoc
has samples from the MM creatures. For instance, litorians
would transfer pretty well. We might do a web article some
time with some specifics.
<Carthain>
From Tezrak: "Were there any previous 3rd Ed/d20 Mass
Combat systems out there that Skip used as inspiration,
or did he start entirely from scratch?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> I started almost entirely from scratch.
My
inspiration was the actual d20 individual combat system.
I started there and extrapolated up. There are certain things
you can infer about mass combat if you know how single combat
works. For instance, the basic assumption that you'll get
five hits if you roll just what you need -- that's elementary
statistics applied to d20 mechanics. Beyond that, I used
some common terminology that I was familiar with from my
miniatures gaming experience. That shows up most strongly
in the rules for terrain.
<Carthain>
From Coyotelies: "My question is: Back in the days
of Basic DnD, the old mass combat rules included tactics
such as enveloping and encircling enemies. Does your new
system include these as well?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> Two-part answer. The unit combat system
models individual combat closely enough that your tactics
depend entirely on what you do with your units. If you want
to envelop someone, you can maneuver your units so that
you envelop them. There is, on the other hand, an army combat
system in the book. The army combat system actually works
a lot like what was in basic D&D, though the specific
items it emphasizes are slightly different. It really shows
its roots in the unit combat system. In any case, the army
combat system has a tactics matrix, in which the attacker
picks a strategy and the defender picks a strategy. You
cross index them, and that determines how the battle worked
out.
<Carthain> From Bynw: "i have a question for
Skip ... What's the smallest size unit and what is the largest
sized unit?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> Unit combat assumes units of 10 creatures.
You can use units of 20 or 50 creatures if you want. The
rules suggest that you try to keep the total number of figures
to 20 on a side (a figure being either 10, 20, or 50 creatures).
Any fewer than 10, and you can just use standard combat,
you don't need mass combat.
<Carthain>
From Elsin: "How do protective spells or spells like
haste play into mass combat?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> It depends on how many creatures in the
unit are receiving the spell. If you have a unit of spellcasters
that can cast the spell on another whole unit, it works
just like it does in individual combat. If the spell doesn't
affect at least the majority of the members of a unit, you
can safely ignore the effects of the spell. If you're a
stickler for accuracy, however, you can just use the rules
for mixed units and recalculate the stats for the unit based
on who's got what spell running when. In the same way that
you can have a unit of 5 bugbears and 5 ogres, you can take
a unit and say that four of the members have mage armor,
then recalculate the unit's AC based on those four creatures
having the spell on them.
<Carthain>
From juanjose_: "That sounds pretty good. I read the
system handles it very well when the PCs are 'unit leaders'
and 'units of PCs'. Could you elaborate a bit?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> So you're asking two questions, there.
Characters certainly can function as leaders, and they have
a lot of fun things they can do ordering their units around
the battlefield. They can do anything from giving their
units orders to maneuver in intricate fashions, to hide
behind their shields, or to attack more efficiently. A commander
can also share his or her feats with a whole unit -- you
can have the whole unit use the feat along with you. To
my mind, that's the most satisfying way to be a PC on the
battlefield. That's the coolest option to me. Sure, you
can have a unit of PCs, too. Use the rules for mixed units.
The unit's likely to be undersized, but this is a case where
that'd be okay, or just pad it out with scrubs. You're really
better off, however, to spread your PCs from unit to unit.
<Skip
via Galhavoc> Let me explain. Everything in the game
in unit combat is magnified by a factor of 10. You have
a one-minute combat round, you have a square that's 50 feet
across, and a figure represents at least 10 creatures. Individual
PCs have the ability, then, to mingle with allied units
and be effectively invisible. Your four PCs could join a
unit of 10 dwarven veterans and the PCs are just extras.
One may be commanding the unit, while the wizard's casting
spells from the safety of the dwarven ranks. As extras,
they're protected from nasty disasters like 500 orcs targeting
them and all shooting arrows at them. It's almost like being
a quarterback on a football team. The front line is the
10 figures, and the quarterback's in there, protected. As
long as that unit stays intact, they pretty much have their
run of the battlefield.
<Carthain>
From juanjose_: "I know using miniatures would be ideal
for mass combat, but does it offer a more abstract alternative
for non-miniature-based battles?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> If you're using the unit combat system,
you need some kind of token to keep track of the units.
At Gen Con, we used counters from Fiery
Dragon. Just like in d20, however, you can use any kind
of token you want -- corks, bottlecaps, and so on. You can
try to do a unit battle with just paper and pencil, just
like you can try to do a D&D game combat with paper
and pencil. And things will work about as well. :<
<Carthain>
From Elsin: "So, what's next for you and Malhavoc?"
<Galhavoc>
(Quick confab takes place over the phone.)
<Skip
via Galhavoc> We have something big brewing for 2004.
How'd you like that for cryptic?
<Carthain>
Cryptic, and yet enticing ^_^
<Galhavoc>
Skip laughs evilly.
<Carthain>
Well, that was the last question that I have.
<Galhavoc>
I will mention that the Cry Havoc system is open
content, and it's already been picked up for use in an expansion
to the Warcraft RPG. Green Ronin is [using it] as
well, for a book Skip's working on with them.
<Carthain>
From Dethand: "This is my question. Can you target
say a pesky spellcaster in a unit, or target the general?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> Dethand, you can't target someone who's
actually joined a unit -- see previous dwarven veteran example.
There is something called a Hero Challenge, though, which
is under the DM's control. When that happens, the DM can
"zoom in" to a particular area and put out all
the other PC-type characters that are out there e and fight
a regular d20 type combat for that challenge. Of course,
you can always drop an area spell like a fireball
on a unit, and that's a good way of getting someone who's
joined a unit. If you catch the commander on his own outside
a unit, he's fair game. If you manage to eliminate the entire
unit, of course, the commander will be left there with his
armor around his ankles.
<Galhavoc>
Skip then goes on to say that this happened to me in the
playtest, but I'm sure I have no memory of such a gaffe.
;)
<Carthain>
Elsin wants to know if the (cryptic) project for next year
is a big project, i.e., bigger than Arcana Unearthed
or not... if you know, that is ^_^
<Galhavoc>
No, not a bigger book than Arcana Unearthed, just
something we haven't exactly done before.
<Carthain>
Michielfl: "Can a PC become more experienced in commanding
his unit? For example, gain feats or some sort of skill?"
<Skip via Galhavoc> Absolutely! There's a new skill
called Profession (military commander), which is what you
use to get better at commanding units. If you get really
good at this skill, there are several spectacular things
you can do. For instance, your normal, everyday PC can issue
one command to a unit per combat round. You can issue additional
commands as move actions. If you get enough ranks in Profession
(military commander), you can issue additional commands
as free actions. So if you have a lot of ranks, you could
have a unit run around a weak neighboring unit and maneuver
to attack another unit, and then issue a command to improve
the unit's attack or share a feat with that unit. You can
do all of those things at once, so your unit suddenly becomes
sort of superpowered. Or else there are feats that let you
do special things on a battlefield. And there's also a prestige
class you can take to really help your command abilities
-- it's the knight commander. He's really all about leading
in unit combat.
<Carthain>
From Elsin: "What is Skip's favorite Arcana Unearthed
class and race? Why?"
<Skip
via Galhavoc> The lion guys are pretty cool -- the litorians.
I grew up when Beauty and the Beast was on TV, so
I think lion men are cool. I haven't quite gotten familiar
with all the classes yet.
<Carthain>
... I'm out of questions now ^_^
<Galhavoc>
Skip said you can open up the room to general chat.
<Carthain>
Okay ^_^
<JediSoth>
So I can gush about Arcana Unearthed now?
<Monte>
Sure. :)
* JediSoth
gushes
<Carthain>
Okay people -- the channel is open -- you can ask your own
questions -- to Monte, Sue, Skip, whoever. ^_^
<Nightfall>
I'm not sure I'd gush, Monte... but thanks to you, I think
I got two old ex-friends to start gaming together again.
:)
<TGM_Stan>
Good job, Sue! Thank you for transcribing!
<JediSoth>
I hadn't intended to buy Arcana Unearthed when I
walked into GenCon, for some reason, it didn't appeal to
me when I read about it. Boy, I'm glad I obeyed that impulse
to buy it when I walked by the booth.
<Galhavoc>
Skip said thanks to all of you for coming. He said he monitors
the Cry Havoc threads in our message
boards and he tries to comment on all of them.
<JediSoth>
Thanks for all the good info, Skip
<Carthain>
Thanks for trying to join us here Skip ^_~
<Michielfl>
Thanks for the info, Skip.
<Galhavoc>
Skip said he was happy to be here -- perhaps one level more
removed than usual in chats like this! Skip is on long distance,
so he's got to say good night now!
<TGM_Stan>
Goodnight, Skip!
<Andy_Hock>
Good night, Skip.
<Tezrak>
G'night Skip.
<Carthain> Bye, Skip!
<Michielfl> Good night, Skip.
<Elsin> Bye
<JediSoth> Good night
<TGM_Stan>
Thank you, Skip .... and thank you Monte & Sue
<Monte>
Thanks to everyone for coming. Special thanks to moderator
extraordinaire, Carthain!
<Bynw>
night Monte
<JediSoth>
Take care! See you around the message boards.
*
Transcript edited for style and clarity.
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